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  • Julie Mattson
  • August 5, 2026August 5, 2026
  • Podcast

Grand Haven: The Karolkiewicz Family

When an entire family is lost, it’s easy for the headlines to focus on the person responsible. In this episode, I wanted to do something different. I’m taking you to Grand Haven Township, Michigan, where Mandy Karolkiewicz and her six children lost their lives in one of the most heartbreaking family annihilation cases of the year. Before we talk about the investigation, I want to remember the people whose lives mattered most, the victims. Using my experience as a forensic death investigator, I’ll walk you through how investigators process a scene involving multiple homicide victims, how forensic evidence helps determine the sequence of events, and why details like wound analysis, fire patterns, and scene reconstruction are so important. We’ll also discuss the research surrounding family annihilation, the psychological and behavioral patterns often seen in these cases, and why recognizing risk factors may help save lives in the future. While we may never fully understand why these tragedies occur, we can learn from them, support those in crisis, and continue advocating for families before violence reaches a devastating conclusion. This episode is shared with deep respect for Mandy, her six children, and everyone whose lives were forever changed by this tragedy. * Listener Discretion Advised EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Matson. Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. Do I have some stories for you?  Are you ready? Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I have several guest host appearances this month and next month, and I haven’t really mentioned what shows they were gonna be on because I don’t know the air dates yet. But when I know a little bit more about when they’re gonna air, I’ll be sure and let y’all know. I will say that Pushing Up Lilies will be at the Denton Day of the Dead Festival this year. Again, we are not participating in the coffin races this year, but I went ahead and applied for a booth, so we will have merch there, and that’s October 24th, which is a Saturday. So, we’ll be there all day with special merchandise, and we will probably do some live interviews with some of the fans and do some videos for our YouTube channel.  Also, we are in the process of planning our second annual Pushing Up Lilies murder mystery event, and we’re not 100% sure where it’s gonna be yet. It will be a weekend in October, obviously not the 24th ’cause we’ll be at the Day of the Dead Festival, but we’ve got a lot of exciting things coming up.  We’ve got some specials we’re gonna run on the subscription box. I need to make sure that everything is up to date on the website for purchase because we do have some exciting new merch that I brought back from CrimeCon with me. I have already applied for Creators Row for CrimeCon 2027, which is in Orlando, Florida. It’s gonna be in September of next year, and I’ve already got my hotel, and it’s sold out. So, I’m really glad that I was able to get in on that because it’s so difficult when you’re traveling with merch and you have to be at an event, to have to Uber back and forth and stay at a different hotel. I’m sure that many of y’all have done that before, and it’s just difficult. It complicates things tremendously, and it’s not always easy to get a ride when you’re traveling, especially in places like Vegas and Orlando, and there’s just a lot of traffic, and it is heavily populated during the summer months. Hopefully, everything will go smoothly, and hopefully, y’all can all go ahead and secure your rooms at a nearby hotel so that you can gear up for CrimeCon 2027.  This week, I wanna talk about a case in Michigan, and we kinda talked about the huge influx of murder-suicides last week. We see them all the time, even in a small town where I was, but it just seems like we’ve had a lot of cases lately, and there’s a lot of people going through a lot of things. I just want everybody to be nice to each other. I know it’s hard sometimes. Sometimes that’s the hardest part of life is smiling and just pretending everything’s okay but just be nice to other people. It can make a big difference in how their day goes. Sometimes when we’re traveling, I’ll go to Starbucks and buy even a $5 gift card, and I’ll give them to my flight attendants, just something to make someone’s day.  03:50 And so, I try to do one thing a day for somebody, even if it’s as simple as letting someone in front of me when they’re trying to get onto the road and there’s a lot of traffic or holding the door open for somebody. It doesn’t have to be a family of 12’s dinner. Just put it in your mind that you should do one nice thing for one person a day. And that’s my challenge for you.  But I wanna talk about this Friday morning in late July when a call came in. There was a fire, a house on Riverside Trail in Grand Haven Township, Michigan, a quiet stretch of West Michigan near the eastern shore of Lake Michigan. And this was the kind of place where people raise big families. They’re comfortable leaving their garage doors open. Ottawa County sheriff’s deputies and fires crews rolled out, and when they got there, there were eight people dead. A mother, a father, and six children ages five to 15. Every single one of them had been shot in the head. And then someone had set the house on fire. Now, I’ve worked death scenes for a long time, and

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Pushing Up Lilies

Pushing Up Lilies
Pushing Up Lilies

Dissect the science behind some of the most spine-tingling, unusual and terrifyingly true crime stories with Julie Mattson, a seasoned Forensic Nurse Death Investigator in this gripping weekly podcast.

Julie’s unique approach to investigations is informed by her background in nursing, which allows her to provide an in-depth analysis of the medical intricacies and physiological aspects of each case.

With her compassionate storytelling and unwavering dedication to uncovering the truth, Julie takes you on a thrilling journey into the world of forensic science, shining a light on the intersection of medicine, justice and criminal investigation.

In “Pushing Up Lilies,” Julie’s expert medical analysis will captivate your imagination and challenge your understanding of the human body’s role in solving the most complex and enigmatic criminal case.

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The Death of Aria Talathi: When a Drowning Scene Tells a Different Story
byJulie Mattson

Sometimes a death scene seems to tell you exactly what happened. A child is found submerged in a swimming pool, and the immediate assumption is drowning.

But as a death investigator, I’ve learned that where someone is found doesn’t necessarily tell us where, or how, they died.

In this episode of Pushing Up Lilies, I’m taking you through the case of four-year-old Aria Talathi, who was found in the deep end of a swimming pool at a short-term rental in Florida while traveling with her mother, Dr. Neha Gupta. What initially appeared to be a devastating childhood drowning became something very different when investigators began looking more closely at the physical evidence.

According to the arrest affidavit discussed in this episode, investigators said Aria’s lungs and stomach were considered dry, while the examination also documented cuts inside her mouth and bruising along the insides of her cheeks. Authorities alleged those injuries raised the possibility that she had been smothered and was already dead before being placed in the pool.

I’ll take you behind the scenes of how I would approach a death investigation like this, including what I would photograph, what questions I would ask, how I would build the timeline, and why something as simple as a door latch, an undisturbed bed, a phone record, or the contents of a stomach can become important.

And there’s something I don’t want us to lose in all of the forensic details: Aria was four years old. Before her name appeared in an arrest affidavit or became part of a murder case, she was a little girl who went to the beach, rode jet skis, and traveled with her mother. Her life deserves to remain at the center of this story.

I also begin this episode with a brief update on the Lindsay Clancy case following the September 4 mistrial and what may happen next.

Content Note: This episode discusses the death of a child, possible smothering/asphyxiation, drowning, and alleged homicide.

The Death of Aria Talathi: When a Drowning Scene Tells a Different Story
The Death of Aria Talathi: When a Drowning Scene Tells a Different Story
September 9, 2026
Julie Mattson
The Lindsay Clancy Trial: The Case Is Now in the Jury’s Hands
September 2, 2026
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The Lindsay Clancy Trial: New Testimony, New Questions
August 26, 2026
Julie Mattson
The Lindsay Clancy Trial: Psychosis, Premeditation, or Both?
August 19, 2026
Julie Mattson
The Lindsay Clancy Case: Three Children, One Unthinkable Night
August 12, 2026
Julie Mattson
Grand Haven: The Karolkiewicz Family
August 5, 2026
Julie Mattson
When Murder Ends in Suicide: A Recent Wave of American Murder-Suicides
July 29, 2026
Julie Mattson
The Questions Left Behind: What Happened to Allie Hummel?
July 22, 2026
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Andrew Hummel: Discovery of Allie
July 22, 2026
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Andrew Hummel: Waiting On Toxicology
July 22, 2026
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Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, terrifyingly true stories with a forensic twist, hosted by Julie Mattson.

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Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, terrifyingly true stories with a forensic twist, hosted by Forensic Nurse Death Investigator, Julie Mattson.

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Recent Episodes

The Death of Aria Talathi: When a Drowning Scene Tells a Different Story

The Lindsay Clancy Trial: The Case Is Now in the Jury’s Hands

The Lindsay Clancy Trial: New Testimony, New Questions

The Lindsay Clancy Trial: Psychosis, Premeditation, or Both?

Subscribe to Podcast

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© 2026 Pushing Up Lilies. All Rights Reserved.