Last week, I took you through the devastating events of January 24, 2023, the night Lindsay Clancy’s three young children, Cora, Dawson, and Callan, were fatally harmed inside their family home in Duxbury, Massachusetts. This week, we move from the home to the courtroom. In The Lindsay Clancy Trial: Psychosis, Premeditation, or Both?, I take a closer look at one of the most complicated questions surrounding this case: What was happening in Lindsay Clancy’s mind when her children died? Lindsay’s mental health before the deaths has become a critical part of understanding the case. Her treatment, medications, reported symptoms, and concerns surrounding postpartum mental illness raise difficult questions about postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis, and about how severe psychiatric illness affects criminal responsibility. But there is another side to this case. The circumstances surrounding that night also raise questions about planning and awareness. Lindsay’s husband, Patrick, left the home to run errands. During the relatively short period he was gone, the lives of all three children were changed forever. So how does the legal system distinguish between an intentional, premeditated act and an act committed by someone experiencing profound psychosis? Can a person appear organized or purposeful while simultaneously experiencing a severe break from reality? And where does mental illness end and legal responsibility begin? As a nurse and former forensic death investigator, I’m particularly interested in the intersection between the medical evidence and the investigative evidence. A case like this cannot be understood through one piece of information alone. We have to look at the timeline, behavior, medical and psychiatric history, physical evidence, statements, expert opinions, and what investigators were able to establish. We also have to remember why this trial is happening. Three young children lost their lives. Whatever conclusions are ultimately reached about Lindsay’s mental state and criminal responsibility, Cora, Dawson, and Callan remain at the center of this case. In this episode, I explore the competing questions surrounding the Lindsay Clancy trial and the challenge of evaluating a case in which mental illness and evidence of apparent planning may exist alongside one another. Was this postpartum psychosis? Was it premeditation? Or is the truth more complicated than either explanation alone? Join me for Part Two of the Lindsay Clancy case on Pushing Up Lilies: The Lindsay Clancy Trial: Psychosis, Premeditation, or Both? EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. 00:10 Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you. Are you ready? Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie. I’m recording today from my med spa. 00:40 I have to admit I love, love, love this microphone. I hope it sounds as good as it sounds in my headset. 00:48 But wanted to bring to your attention, and I know I may have mentioned it last week, but we are having our second annual Murder Mystery Dinner. 00:58 This year is gonna be on October 10th in Krum, Texas, at Studio 141, and we’re gonna have an amazing, immersive murder mystery dinner catered by Our Blended Table. 01:13 And if you haven’t had their food, let me just tell you, it’s amazing. 01:18 It’s gonna be very interactive, a great chance to meet people who love true crime, and also an opportunity to meet and speak with Ann Byrum. 01:30 Now, many of you may not know who Ann is, but Ann is the mother of Kelly Ann Cox, and Kelly was actually abducted in Denton back in 1997 from a gas station in- very near the Denton Police Department after a tour of the jail with her criminal justice class from UNT. 01:54 And Ann loves to remind us how important it is to kinda watch your back and always use the buddy system. This happened to Kelly Ann during the day. 02:09 I mean, it was daylight right in front of the police department with officers going in and out on a very busy road. 02:17 I’m so thankful and grateful that Ann has offered to come up from Houston and be my speaker, and so I’m very much looking forward to talking to her. 02:29 We’re gonna do an interview with her, and then we’re gonna open up the floor for questions. Now, I’m also going to have a booth at the Day of the Dead Festival. I’m not racing this year. 02:42 They went up a little bit on the cost, and I just decided that I would rather spend that money advocating, so I turned it around a little bit. 02:51 This year I’ll just have a merch booth, but we’re gonna have hoodies, we’ll have T-shirts, we’ll have pins, we’ll have plenty of stickers, and the comic book. 03:02 The comic book will be there, and I’ll be glad to sign those as well. 03:07 And we’ll also be at the Overdose Awareness event on the square in Denton, Texas, on August 31st, so that’s coming up right around the corner. 03:18 It’s so crazy to think that it’s already September or almost September. It makes me wanna go Christmas shopping. 03:24 It’s never too early, I think, to just go look around, see what you can find, and the Hobby Lobby already has their Christmas stuff out. 03:32 That kinda drives me crazy to think that really in July they started doing that. I don’t like it, because I like to just celebrate my seasons. 03:42 I wanna celebrate Thanksgiving without my Christmas tree up. So anyway, I don’t know if y’all feel the same way about it, but there’s my piece. 03:50 Wanna talk a little bit more about the Lindsay Clancy trial, and I know that many of you have been watching it, and I’m so upset that I haven’t been able to watch
The Lindsay Clancy Case: Three Children, One Unthinkable Night
On January 24, 2023, what began as an ordinary evening for a young Massachusetts family ended in an unimaginable tragedy. Lindsay Clancy was a labor and delivery nurse, wife, and mother of three young children. That night, her husband, Patrick, briefly left their Duxbury home to pick up dinner and medication. When he returned, everything had changed. Their three children, Cora, Dawson, and Callan, would ultimately lose their lives, and Lindsay would survive after suffering serious injuries herself. In this episode of Pushing Up Lilies, I walk you through what happened that night and the events surrounding the deaths of these three children. As a nurse and former forensic death investigator, this case raises difficult questions for me, not only about the investigation itself, but about mental health following childbirth. Lindsay had reportedly been struggling with her mental health and receiving treatment before the deaths, bringing postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, and postpartum psychosis into the national conversation. What happens when a mother’s perception of reality becomes distorted? How do investigators begin reconstructing a scene involving multiple children and a critically injured parent? And how do we discuss a case this devastating while remembering that at the center of it are three children whose lives were lost? This week, we’re focusing on the night everything happened: the timeline, the circumstances surrounding the deaths, and what investigators began to uncover. Next week, we’ll continue with the Lindsay Clancy case as we turn our attention to the courtroom, the evidence and arguments being presented, and the complicated questions surrounding postpartum psychosis and criminal responsibility. This is a heartbreaking case with no easy answers. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Matson. 00:10 Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? Hey, guys. Welcome to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie. I just want to say that I’m so grateful for all my followers. 00:43 I am just about to hit 100,000 downloads, which is amazing. 00:49 I’ve recorded over 200 episodes, and I am being asked to guest host on a lot of other true crime podcasts, which I’m so grateful for the friends and true crime family that I met at Beyond the Crime and then also at Crime Con. 01:07 And I’ve already… I think I told y’all, I’ve already actually applied as a creator for Crime Con 2027, which is in September 2027 in Orlando, and I’m excited about the possibility. 01:22 I will be exhibitor if I’m not chosen to be on Creators Row again. I don’t think there was really a lot of separation as far as who was on Creators Row and who was an exhibitor. 01:36 However, I know that there was a cost difference, so it doesn’t matter to me really. I used to be so focused on being a creator and you know what? 01:46 We’re all creators, and they only chose a certain number of people, and that’s fine. I don’t know how they decide that. They say that they’re fair about it. I just don’t know. 01:57 I don’t know who makes that decision. 01:59 I don’t even know how many creators they had versus exhibitors, but I know that many podcasters who had been in the podcasting world for years still were not chosen. 02:11 So, it really had nothing to do with your experience or your level of expertise or even how long you’d been doing it. Anyway, I applied as a creator, if nothing else, to save a little bit of money. 02:26 I can tell you that I think I will drive next time because the cost of shipping all my merch there was ridiculous, and it had to be there two weeks before the event, and then we had to pay Caesars Palace to store our stuff. 02:43 So, the underlying cost of podcasting, I think, is something that a lot of people don’t understand, and that’s why we work so hard to get sponsors. 02:52 This year, I am hosting my second annual Murder Mystery Dinner, and it’s gonna be in Krum, Texas. The date we have chosen is October 10th. 03:03 It’ll start at 5:00 PM, and we’re gonna have, like, a one-hour kinda meet and greet, have some drinks, visit, meet each other, and also talk to the actors. 03:15 And then at 6:00, it will start, and that is a three-hour show that will be put on during dinner. It’s very interactive. Super excited. There are opportunities this year to sponsor the event. 03:32 I will say that I have reached out to several different organizations to be a part of promoting them. 03:43 One of them is making the coasters where you can test for GHB and Rohypnol in your drink, and to put the Pushing Up Lilies logo on those and then hand them out at local bars for free. 03:58 And then also, we have two major universities in Denton, giving them to students so that they can check their drink before they take a drink to make sure that it hasn’t been tainted. 04:10 I like to help with prevention, and so those things are things that I wanna do with the sponsorship and promotion money that we get from the event, as well as to help kinda cover the costs of the podcast. 04:24 So anyway, there’s a lot of stuff up and coming, and so I’m super excited to share it with y’all. 04:28 I really don’t wanna mention the names of the organizations until I have something set in stone, but it’s gonna be exciting. There’s gonna be a lot. 04:37 I have, uh, a guest speaker lined up that y’all are going to love to hear. Her daughter was murdered, and I’m
Grand Haven: The Karolkiewicz Family
When an entire family is lost, it’s easy for the headlines to focus on the person responsible. In this episode, I wanted to do something different. I’m taking you to Grand Haven Township, Michigan, where Mandy Karolkiewicz and her six children lost their lives in one of the most heartbreaking family annihilation cases of the year. Before we talk about the investigation, I want to remember the people whose lives mattered most, the victims. Using my experience as a forensic death investigator, I’ll walk you through how investigators process a scene involving multiple homicide victims, how forensic evidence helps determine the sequence of events, and why details like wound analysis, fire patterns, and scene reconstruction are so important. We’ll also discuss the research surrounding family annihilation, the psychological and behavioral patterns often seen in these cases, and why recognizing risk factors may help save lives in the future. While we may never fully understand why these tragedies occur, we can learn from them, support those in crisis, and continue advocating for families before violence reaches a devastating conclusion. This episode is shared with deep respect for Mandy, her six children, and everyone whose lives were forever changed by this tragedy. * Listener Discretion Advised EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Matson. Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I have several guest host appearances this month and next month, and I haven’t really mentioned what shows they were gonna be on because I don’t know the air dates yet. But when I know a little bit more about when they’re gonna air, I’ll be sure and let y’all know. I will say that Pushing Up Lilies will be at the Denton Day of the Dead Festival this year. Again, we are not participating in the coffin races this year, but I went ahead and applied for a booth, so we will have merch there, and that’s October 24th, which is a Saturday. So, we’ll be there all day with special merchandise, and we will probably do some live interviews with some of the fans and do some videos for our YouTube channel. Also, we are in the process of planning our second annual Pushing Up Lilies murder mystery event, and we’re not 100% sure where it’s gonna be yet. It will be a weekend in October, obviously not the 24th ’cause we’ll be at the Day of the Dead Festival, but we’ve got a lot of exciting things coming up. We’ve got some specials we’re gonna run on the subscription box. I need to make sure that everything is up to date on the website for purchase because we do have some exciting new merch that I brought back from CrimeCon with me. I have already applied for Creators Row for CrimeCon 2027, which is in Orlando, Florida. It’s gonna be in September of next year, and I’ve already got my hotel, and it’s sold out. So, I’m really glad that I was able to get in on that because it’s so difficult when you’re traveling with merch and you have to be at an event, to have to Uber back and forth and stay at a different hotel. I’m sure that many of y’all have done that before, and it’s just difficult. It complicates things tremendously, and it’s not always easy to get a ride when you’re traveling, especially in places like Vegas and Orlando, and there’s just a lot of traffic, and it is heavily populated during the summer months. Hopefully, everything will go smoothly, and hopefully, y’all can all go ahead and secure your rooms at a nearby hotel so that you can gear up for CrimeCon 2027. This week, I wanna talk about a case in Michigan, and we kinda talked about the huge influx of murder-suicides last week. We see them all the time, even in a small town where I was, but it just seems like we’ve had a lot of cases lately, and there’s a lot of people going through a lot of things. I just want everybody to be nice to each other. I know it’s hard sometimes. Sometimes that’s the hardest part of life is smiling and just pretending everything’s okay but just be nice to other people. It can make a big difference in how their day goes. Sometimes when we’re traveling, I’ll go to Starbucks and buy even a $5 gift card, and I’ll give them to my flight attendants, just something to make someone’s day. 03:50 And so, I try to do one thing a day for somebody, even if it’s as simple as letting someone in front of me when they’re trying to get onto the road and there’s a lot of traffic or holding the door open for somebody. It doesn’t have to be a family of 12’s dinner. Just put it in your mind that you should do one nice thing for one person a day. And that’s my challenge for you. But I wanna talk about this Friday morning in late July when a call came in. There was a fire, a house on Riverside Trail in Grand Haven Township, Michigan, a quiet stretch of West Michigan near the eastern shore of Lake Michigan. And this was the kind of place where people raise big families. They’re comfortable leaving their garage doors open. Ottawa County sheriff’s deputies and fires crews rolled out, and when they got there, there were eight people dead. A mother, a father, and six children ages five to 15. Every single one of them had been shot in the head. And then someone had set the house on fire. Now, I’ve worked death scenes for a long time, and
When Murder Ends in Suicide: A Recent Wave of American Murder-Suicides
When a murder ends in suicide, investigators lose one of the most important pieces of the puzzle—the person who could explain why. In this episode, I take you inside several recent murder-suicide cases from across the United States, including tragedies involving entire families, intimate partners, and parents and children. From Michigan to Oklahoma, Delaware, and Florida, these heartbreaking cases remind us that every scene tells a story, but it’s the evidence that reveals what truly happened. As a forensic death investigator, I explain how investigators reconstruct these complex scenes by examining body position, injuries, blood evidence, trajectories, fire damage, digital evidence, timelines, and countless other details. When there is no suspect to interview, no trial, and often no suicide note, the investigation must rely on science, careful documentation, and the facts left behind. We’ll also discuss why protective orders don’t always prevent violence, why investigators avoid speculation during active cases, and why it’s important to distinguish between homicide and suicide when understanding these tragedies. Throughout the episode, I share the questions investigators ask, the evidence they search for, and why the answers aren’t always immediately clear. These cases are difficult to hear, but they also highlight the dedication of investigators, first responders, and forensic professionals who work tirelessly to uncover the truth for victims and their families. Join me as we explore the investigative process behind one of the most challenging types of death investigations, and the questions that often remain when murder ends in suicide. * Listener discretion is advised. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. 00:10 Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. We are home this week and back from North Dakota. We had a great trip. Travel’s exhausting. 00:42 I don’t know if y’all feel the same way about it that I do. I’m always so excited to get there, but I’m also equally excited to get home. 00:50 Of course, I recorded the podcast from there and did homework from there, and so life didn’t really stop. 00:59 I’m really looking forward to three days from now when this semester’s over, and I can actually relax for about seven weeks before my next semester starts. 01:11 That gives me a little bit to look forward to. Maybe I can take a little trip to Fredericksburg or something to wine country during that time. That’d be kinda relaxing. I would love that. 01:22 Now, this week I planned on having Kelsey on from last week’s episode, and that is not happening just because our schedules are hard to coincide right now. 01:37 Working on having her within the next couple of weeks, but while I was gone, we had this wave of murder-suicides, and so I kinda wanted to talk a little bit about that this week instead of having Kelsey on and give her some time to get her bearings. 01:57 I know that case is relatively new, having just happened in June. 02:01 I don’t want to overwhelm her and bother her too much, so I did reach out to her, and we’ll try to get together in the next couple of weeks. 02:09 I’ve also been scheduling myself as guest host on a lot of other podcasts. 02:16 That has resulted in me hiring an executive assistant to actually help me set up all of my guest appearances and travel and that kind of stuff ’cause it gets hectic, and I don’t wanna forget something, and I always wanna be able to reach out to people, and that just keeps me on my toes a little bit more so that I can respond a little bit quicker. 02:39 Anyway, we’re gonna talk again about this recent wave of murder-suicides, and the truth is it happens every day, and not a lot of people know that. 02:51 I know that because I worked as a death investigator, but even in the small county that I worked in, there were a lot of them, and when I worked in Harris County, there were even more. 03:02 In Dallas County, there were even more. 03:05 So of course, the larger the area, the more frequently this happens, and because there’s been a wave recently, we’re hearing about it a lot in the news, but then also the recent case of the family and then also the influencers, those cases tend to make the news because family of eight and two TikTok influencers. 03:31 As social media has grown, so do the instances where we’re hearing of these more frequently. But I know we’ve all been following the news lately. 03:41 It’s very disturbing, and in a matter of weeks, we’ve seen families, husbands, wives, parents, children, and former partners become victims in cases that are described as murder-suicides. 03:55 It’s happened in Michigan, Oklahoma, Delaware, Florida, and other communities all across the country. 04:03 They’re all different people and different circumstances and different relationships, but they have the same basic ending, and that is someone decides another human being is gonna die, and then after committing the homicide, the person responsible dies by suicide. 04:22 And so tonight I wanna kinda talk you through these recent cases, but I wanna approach the episode a little bit differently because I’ve spent years investigating death, and I’ve walked into homes where someone dies unexpectedly and, of course, examined the bodies and talked to families during the worst moments of their lives. 04:45 One thing you learn quickly in death investigation is that the scene does not arrive with an explanation, so you basically have to build it. 04:54 You look at the body, you look at the environment, you look at the evidence, and of
The Questions Left Behind: What Happened to Allie Hummel?
BONUS AUDIO: SHARED WITH PERMISSION FROM ALLIE’S FRIEND BONUS AUDIO: SHARED WITH PERMISSION FROM ALLIE’S FRIEND What happens when a young, healthy woman is found dead in her own home… and the questions begin long before the investigation has answers? This week on Pushing Up Lilies, I’m taking a closer look at the life and death of Alexandra “Allie” Hummel, a 36-year-old licensed nurse from Missouri whose unexpected death remains under investigation. Based on publicly available information, I walk through the timeline of events leading up to her death, including a documented domestic violence incident that occurred less than a year earlier and why that history is significant in any death investigation. From the 911 call to the pending toxicology results, I’ll explain what investigators look for when responding to an unexpected death in the home, how prior incidents become part of the investigative process, and why every piece of evidence matters. As a forensic death investigator, I also share my professional perspective on scene documentation, autopsy findings, toxicology testing, and the importance of remaining objective while allowing the facts to determine the outcome. Most importantly, this episode is about Allie, a dedicated nurse, mother, daughter, sister, and friend whose loved ones continue to seek answers. While this investigation is still ongoing, her story also shines a light on the realities of domestic violence, the challenges victims often face, and why support systems are so important. Next week, I’ll be joined by Allie’s close friend, Kelsey, who will share personal memories of Allie and offer additional insight into the woman behind the headlines. If you or someone you love is experiencing domestic violence, please know that help is available. You are not alone. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I’m coming to you this week from Deadwood, South Dakota. I don’t know how many of you have been here before, but it is such a beautiful countryside. 00:44 We flew into Rapid City yesterday and we’re here for a couple of days. Then we’re going to go visit my husband’s family farm in Rock Lake, North Dakota. And then we’re going to go to Minot and spend a day at the fair, I believe, before we go home. 01:03 So just needed a little opportunity to get away. School is still schooling. I guess next week is my last week of this semester. So, I’ll be taking my final exam, which I’m extremely nervous about for this clinical. 01:19 And I have one more clinical day, and I will have my 180 hours and 180 patients in for this semester. And then we’re going to do the same thing next semester, but next semester is going to be pediatrics and family medicine. 01:34 And then my last semester is the same. So, I will be doing those rotations in Louisville as well. So, I should be done in March, y’all. So, I’m just hoping that everything goes smoothly. School is hard when you’ve been out for 30 years. 01:52 It’s really hard to try to go back. And my memory’s not what it used to be. I think I’ve told you all that before. When you’re 58, you just don’t remember things like you should. And so, it’s more difficult, even if it’s something that’s instilled in your brain that you’ve been doing for 30 years. 02:07 But today we are dedicating a full episode to the life and death of Alexandra, also known as Allie Leanne Barton Hummel. She was a 36-year-old licensed nurse from New London, Missouri. And Allie was found unresponsive in her home on June 23rd of this year, 2026. 02:31 And her death remains under investigation. Now, again, as I’ve told y’all before, this is a fully factual account based on public records, news reports, court documents, family statements, statements from friends that I have spoken to, and official statements that have been made public since the middle of this month. 02:58 There is no speculation here beyond what’s reported. I’m just going to stick to the facts. But Allie’s story is one of a dedicated healthcare professional, a sister, a friend, and a mother, and a woman whose final chapter has left her loved ones in her community seeking answers. 03:18 This is a story very similar to ones that we hear every day and very similar to ones that I have worked in the death investigation field. Now, later in this episode, I’m going to give you some professional insights into the death investigation process in cases like this. 03:38 And I’m going to announce next week’s episode. That’s going to be an interview with Allie’s friend Kelsey, who will share her perspective and memories surrounding her friend’s life and passing. Now, Alexandra, or we’ll just call her Allie. 03:55 Allie Hummel was born on July 7th of 1989. So, she would have turned 37 just two weeks after her death. She grew up in Missouri area and pursued a career in nursing, and she became a licensed nurse in that state. 04:16 She is remembered by those who knew her as a caring individual with passion for helping others. Now, Allie worked as a nurse, and we all know this is a demanding profession that often involves long hours. 04:29 It’s a lot of stress, and it has a profound impact on patients’ lives, which is why we love it. But colleagues and friends who interacted with her professionally described her positively following her death. 04:43 She was very well loved. Now, she married Dr. Andrew Michael Hummel, who was an anesthesiologist, and he operated Northern Ozark Anesthesia Solutions, which is his own
The Vanished Remains: The Julie Mott Story
What happens when someone disappears… after they’ve already died? In this episode of Pushing Up Lilies, I’m exploring one of the most unusual and heartbreaking cases I’ve ever researched, the disappearance of Julie Mott’s remains from a San Antonio funeral home following her memorial service. Julie was just 25 years old when she passed away after a lifelong battle with cystic fibrosis. Her family gathered to honor her life, believing they would soon receive her ashes after cremation. Instead, they were met with an unimaginable nightmare: Julie’s embalmed body had vanished. I’ll walk you through the timeline of events, from Julie’s courageous life and memorial service to the shocking discovery that her remains were missing. We’ll examine the police investigation, the role of a former boyfriend who became a person of interest, the civil trial that revealed serious security concerns within the funeral home, and why this mystery remains unsolved nearly a decade later. As a forensic death investigator, I’ll also share my professional perspective on the handling of human remains, chain of custody, funeral home security, and why cases like this are extraordinarily rare. We’ll discuss what the evidence tells us, what it doesn’t, and why preserving the dignity of the deceased is one of the most important responsibilities in death care. No one has ever been criminally charged in connection with the disappearance, and Julie’s remains have never been found. This episode is a sobering reminder that even after death, families deserve answers, transparency, and the assurance that their loved ones will be treated with dignity and respect. Join me as we examine one of the most perplexing and emotionally devastating mysteries in modern death investigation. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. School, y’all, is kicking my butt. It is so hard to go back to school when you’re in your late 50s. 00:44 My memory is just not what it used to be. I mean, kudos to all of you who have done this because I didn’t realize how hard it was going to be. I never really realized how much time it was going to require. 00:57 In high school, it wasn’t that difficult for me. I just have not struggled really with school. And I’m not struggling now. It’s more of a time issue because, you know, when you’re an adult and you have a family and you have a granddaughter and you have a job and you own a business and you have a podcast, it’s very difficult to figure out how you’re going to squeeze everything in. 01:22 I’m like guest host on four different podcasts this month. I have a couple of trips planned. I have a leadership meeting this weekend on Friday. I have a three-day conference in September. I’m just so glad that this semester is over on July 31st and I can actually take off a month and a half until the next semester starts. 01:48 And I’m not going to lie, I’m a little bit nervous about my final exam. It actually requires being on video with my instructor and you have very little time to actually do your assignment behind the scenes before you’re being videoed. 02:05 So that makes me extremely nervous. I know I’ve been a nurse for 30 years, but the context is so different. Like to actually diagnose and treat somebody with a medication and to be responsible for what you give them and make sure it works is completely different than graduating with your RN degree. 02:27 It’s a little bit, I don’t know, it’s kind of scary, but I love it. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I absolutely love it. I know I’m completely capable, but it is a little bit difficult when you get this age because my memory, again, I think I’ve told y’all before, it’s just not what it used to be. 02:45 And so if I was in my 20s, I’d be spitting this stuff back out so fast, it’d be crazy. But now I’m like struggling to remember. Anyway, this week I want to talk to you about a detailed look at one of the most disturbing cases involving the post-death handling of human remains I’ve ever researched. 03:06 This story actually centers on the Julie Mott case. She’s a young woman who fought a long battle with illness only for her remains to disappear from a funeral home in circumstances that remain unresolved years later. 03:21 Now we’re going to cover her life, her death, the memorial service, the shocking discovery, the police investigation, the extensive civil trial with all its revelations, the family’s ongoing search for closure, and the forensic insights into what this case reveals about vulnerabilities in death care facilities. 03:44 Now, this is a thorough examination, and I will pause at key points to allow the weight of the facts to settle. Listener discretion is strongly advised because this episode actually discusses death from chronic illness, profound grief, and the desecration and loss of human remains, and the lasting trauma to surviving family members. 04:10 All information presented is drawn directly from publicly available court documents, police statements, and credible journaling reporting. I know I’ve told y’all before, I’m not making this stuff up. 04:24 No speculation beyond what has been officially documented. If you’re experiencing grief or emotional distress, again, please reach out to professional support resources in your area. We’re going to spend significant time on each phase
A Mother’s Life Stolen: The Murder of Caroline Piña Cairo
In this episode of Pushing Up Lilies, I’m examining the heartbreaking murder of 32-year-old Caroline Piña Cairo, a mother of five whose life was taken in a brutal daylight attack that stunned the Del Rio, Texas community. When Caroline arrived at the hospital suffering from multiple stab wounds, medical teams fought to save her life. Despite their efforts, she later succumbed to her injuries. Three women were arrested and charged with her murder, but many questions surrounding the case remain unanswered as the investigation continues. As a forensic death investigator and former emergency room nurse, I walk through what happens in the critical moments after a stabbing victim arrives at the hospital, why injuries like these can be far more severe than they first appear, and how investigators begin reconstructing a violent crime through witness statements, surveillance footage, forensic evidence, and medical findings. I also discuss why it’s so important to separate verified facts from speculation while a case is still unfolding. But more than anything, I want to remember Caroline. She wasn’t simply the victim in a headline. She was a mother, a friend, and someone remembered for her generosity and the kindness she showed others, even during difficult times in her own life. Behind every investigation is a family whose world has been forever changed, and five children who will grow up without their mother. This episode contains discussion of homicide, stabbing violence, and death. Listener discretion is advised. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Amy Steadman and the Mechanicville Family Deaths
In this episode of Pushing Up Lilies, I’m covering the heartbreaking case involving Amy Steadman and the tragic family deaths that shook the community of Mechanicville, New York. Cases involving multiple family members are among the most emotionally difficult for investigators, first responders, and the communities left searching for answers. As details emerged, investigators were faced with the complex task of piecing together what happened inside a home where several lives were lost, while loved ones struggled to make sense of an unimaginable tragedy. As a forensic death investigator, I discuss the investigative process behind cases like this, the importance of carefully documenting the scene, evaluating the evidence without assumptions, and understanding how investigators work to reconstruct the events that led to such devastating outcomes. I also explore the emotional toll these cases can have, not only on surviving family members, but on the professionals responsible for uncovering the truth. But beyond the investigation, I want to remember the people at the center of this story. Behind every report are individuals whose lives mattered, families forever changed, and a community left grieving. Every death investigation is about more than determining what happened, it’s about honoring those who can no longer speak for themselves and seeking answers with compassion, professionalism, and respect. This episode contains discussion of family violence, homicide, and death. Listener discretion is advised. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? Welcome to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I’m so happy that y’all joined us today. Still recovering from all the CrimeCon stuff. My items that I had there were boxed up and shipped back to me, and I just got them all back. 00:46 So, I’m trying to get them into my store at the Mercantile in Krum. Thank you for being patient with me. My plan was to try to do that today, but I ended up having to make a doctor’s appointment. So, it’s been kind of crazy. 00:58 Clinical tomorrow and then meds fall, med spa, and, you know, the routine. Trying to keep my head afloat while I’m finishing school. I’ve got one month left of this semester. So, I get a month and a half off and then I have two more small three-month semesters finished or left. 01:18 So hopefully it will go quickly. It seems like so far away, but I know that these days’ time flies super-fast. I want to make sure that y’all have a super safe 4th of July. I know at the medical examiner’s office, we would always frequently have drownings during the holidays when everyone’s at the lake and having their hold my beer and watch this moment. 01:41 So, keep a close eye on your friends. And my biggest thing is don’t always assume that your friends that can swim don’t still need to be watched because if they’re drinking or if they’re not super healthy, they could have a medical emergency in the water. 02:02 There are, in many cases, free life jackets available at the lakes. So, everyone in your boat should have one. There’s just a lot of ways to think ahead about how to be safe and prevent accidents and injuries and deaths. 02:19 Just kind of keep that in your head when you’re going to the lake or even when you’re just outside in the heat. Take water. Stay hydrated. We don’t want a bunch of heat strokes going on. Think about your health and the health of the others with you. 02:32 And that will help tremendously in preventing deaths and accidents and injuries. So, okay, that’s my spiel. Gonna get into this week’s episode. This week, I want to talk to you a little bit about the case regarding Amy Steadman, and this is the Mechanicville family deaths. 02:51 Now, this happened on June 23rd, so it wasn’t that long ago. This year, police in Mechanicville, New York responded to a wellness check at an apartment on Harris Avenue. Now, a neighbor had grown worried. 03:05 The family had not been seen, and the air around the apartment smelled wrong, and flies were gathering. And we’ve talked about this before when someone’s in their home, haven’t been seen in a while. They call the police for a welfare check, and it smells bad. 03:23 I mean, you’ve smelled an animal that has been decaying in the road or in the ditch, and it’s just not a pleasant smell. Those details actually matter in death investigation. Odor and flies, they tell you, obviously, that time has passed. 03:40 They tell you that something inside has changed, and they tell you that the body or bodies are no longer in an early stage of death, but they are decomposing. So, when officers actually entered Amy Steadman’s apartment, they found six people dead. 03:58 Amy Steadman was 64. Her daughter, Sarah Myers, was 44. Sarah’s daughter, Harper Harmon, was 13. Sarah’s son, Hudson Harmon, was 11. And Sarah’s 10-year-old twins were Gavin Harmon and Gracelyn Harmon. 04:17 So, all six were found inside Amy’s apartment. And even though Sarah and the children actually lived in a separate unit in the same apartment complex. Police later said that the deaths appeared criminal and evidence suggested intentional poisoning. 04:35 Investigators also said that one of the children had suffered fatal sharp force injuries. So, a handwritten note found inside the home strongly pointed towards Amy Stedman. According to the police, that’s just what they said. 04:51 Toxicology results and final medical examiner findings were still pending when these details were released. Today we’re talking about what police believe Amy Steadman did. So, we’re talking about the crime scene and the poisoning, sharp force injury,
The Survivor Who Stopped a Serial Killer
In this episode of Pushing Up Lilies, I’m examining the disturbing case of Shawn Michael Grate, a serial killer whose crimes spanned a decade across northern Ohio and left multiple families forever changed. What makes this case especially unsettling is not only the length of time the murders continued, but how many opportunities there may have been to stop the violence sooner. As investigators pieced together the evidence, a clearer picture emerged of a predator who targeted vulnerable women, leaving behind unanswered questions and unimaginable heartbreak. As a forensic death investigator, I walk through the timeline of the investigation, the evidence that ultimately connected the cases, and the forensic and investigative techniques that helped bring long-awaited answers to the victims’ families. We’ll also discuss how missing persons investigations, crime scene evidence, and victim identification play critical roles in solving complex serial homicide cases. But as with every case I cover, I want to keep the focus where it belongs. On the victims. Each woman had a life, a story, and people who loved her. Behind every headline was someone whose future was stolen far too soon. Their lives deserve to be remembered with dignity, not simply as part of a criminal’s history. This episode explores the realities of serial homicide investigations while honoring the individuals whose stories might otherwise be overshadowed by the person responsible. This episode contains discussion of homicide, sexual violence, and serial murder. Listener discretion is advised. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Pushing Up Lilies. I am working on my home YouTube podcast studio. My office is very, there’s a lot of echoes in there. 00:47 And so, I’m going to have to do something, I think, with the walls. As you all know, I’ve been recording for years in the floor of my closet, surrounded by my clothes hanging, which serve a great buffer from outside noise. 01:01 But I’m ready to get on video. I’m ready to do this YouTube thing. I’ve also started a YouTube channel for my MedSpa called Beyond the Needle, and I’m working on the studio there at the same time. Of course, all while going to grad school, recording the podcast, taking care of my family, and working full-time at the med spa and actually attending clinicals for $0 an hour. 01:33 So, we all know at some point in our lives what that looks like. And it’s so fun, y’all. But I’ve got to get the YouTube up and going. I know that YouTube’s kind of where it’s at, trying to work a little bit on my TikTok. 01:48 I have somebody that’s going to help me with some videos. And right now, I have someone working on an intro and outro for my YouTube channels for both the MedSpa and the podcast. So, we’re going to start really pushing out the subscription boxes, the cereal boxes. 02:04 Those are great. They have the cutest things in them. I know that y’all are going to love them. And I’ve got a lot of new items with my logo on them that I took to CrimeCon. And yeah, I really need to get up to the Merk here in Krum and get all that stuff set up in that booth so that y’all can purchase some of the new stuff. 02:24 I know I’ve had a lot of y’all asking about them. First, I want to talk a little bit about my friend Stephanie. Stephanie owns a company called Soaping Up Life, and her soaps are amazing. Let me tell you, I bought some in little boxes, super cute gifts for my girlfriends for Christmas, and they loved them. 02:49 There was a bath bomb, a soap, I think a lip balm. It was just the cutest little set ever. So, if you need some self-care in your life, you’re going to find a lot of handcrafted soaps, foaming hand soaps, bath bombs, and more. 03:07 And these are made in very small batches by Stephanie at her house with skin-loving ingredients and unique fragrances that you will absolutely love. And for the ultimate treat, you need to join her subscription box, Soaping Up Life, and get a curated collection of handmade bath and body products delivered right to your door every month. 03:32 So, visit soapinguplife.com and treat yourself today. You will not be sorry. Stephanie’s soaps smell amazing. This week, we’re going to talk a little about missed opportunities. This is a case that continues today to haunt investigators across Ohio. 03:55 But first, I do want to thank y’all for spending your day with me. I know I met so many people at CrimeCon who listen every day. And some while they’re driving to work, some might be walking their dog, cleaning their house, or just sitting in their favorite chair with a cup of coffee. 04:12 But I truly appreciate you being here. Now, again, this is a story of missed opportunities and vulnerable victims. A story about a woman who actually made one phone call that saved her life and exposed a serial killer. 04:30 This is about Shawn Grate. And I want to say that this episode actually contains discussion of sexual assault, not vivid, but there were some women tortured. There were homicides involved and violence against women. 04:47 So, listener discretion is advised. I don’t go into gory details, but I want to get started a little bit on this story. Now, September 13th, 2016, we’re in Ashland, Ohio, and there was a woman trapped inside a house. 05:08 She’d been beaten. She’d been sexually assaulted. She had been bound to a bed and
Where It All Began: Julie’s Story – Host of Pushing Up Lilies
Who am I, and how did I end up investigating death for a living? Originally released as Episode One, I’m bringing this episode back for new listeners who want to know the story behind the voice of Pushing Up Lilies. This is my story, from my path into nursing to becoming a Forensic Nurse Death Investigator. I’ll talk about what drew me to this unique profession, what it’s really like to investigate deaths, and why I felt called to create this podcast. Over the years, I’ve responded to countless death scenes, worked alongside law enforcement, medical examiners, and families experiencing unimaginable loss. Those experiences have taught me that every death has a story, and understanding that story requires compassion, science, careful investigation, and sometimes asking difficult questions. Pushing Up Lilies was created to give listeners an honest look behind the scenes of death investigation. Whether you’re fascinated by forensic science, curious about how cases are solved, or simply interested in the realities of this profession, I hope this podcast helps educate, inspire, and answer questions you’ve always wondered about. If you’re new here, welcome. This episode is the perfect place to begin. If you’ve been listening for a while, thank you for being part of this journey. I’m so glad you’re here. Join me as I share the story behind the microphone, and the path that led me to Pushing Up Lilies. EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: 00:06 Welcome to Pushing Up Lilies. I’m your host, Julie Mattson. Pushing Up Lilies is a weekly true crime podcast with spine-tingling, unusual, and terrifyingly true stories from my perspective as a forensic death investigator and a sexual assault nurse examiner. 00:24 Do I have some stories for you? Are you ready? So, my journey as a forensic nurse began quite some time ago. I got out of nursing school, and at that time, there was no such thing as forensic nursing. 00:43 I was a charge nurse in the local emergency room, and my unit director came up and asked me to train to be a sexual assault nurse examiner. At the time, of course, I didn’t know much about what it was, but I did know that when we had a patient come into the emergency room that had been sexually assaulted, we would struggle to do the exam correctly because we would do the rape kit on that patient. 01:14 And it would take probably about four hours because the directions were so detailed. We didn’t want to mess anything up. It would take us away from all of our other patients. We would have to give them to another nurse and struggle to do the rape kit correctly. 01:31 It was just really a long, drawn-out process. They had decided, well, we’re going to train nurses to do this. They would do this all the time. They would be experienced. They would know what they’re doing. 01:44 They would be able to testify in court and know what trauma looked like from a sexual assault aspect. My boss asked me to do that and I did reluctantly. I wasn’t super excited about it. I really didn’t really know what I was getting into. 02:04 But over the years, and of course I’ve done that for 21 years, over the years of testifying in court and actually helping get those perpetrators sentenced, many of them or most of them, life in prison, was so invigorating to have that power to be able to help get justice for the victims. 02:31 So, over the years, I wanted to know more about forensics. I wanted to know what I could do to help in the forensics field. Keep in mind, this is before CSI and before forensic files. None of that stuff was really on TV yet, right? 02:48 So forensic nursing was just becoming a thing. So, I called my local medical examiner’s office and asked them how I could learn to be a death investigator. They told me to just get the training anywhere I could, save all my certificates, and keep my CV updated, which is what I did. 03:08 I sent myself to the University of St. Louis, to the medical school, and I took the training course. I could not get certified because I was not working in the field of death investigation, but I at least took the course and came home with that knowledge so that I could start looking for a job in death investigation. 03:30 I found one in Harris County. I moved to Houston and I worked there for years and got so much experience working with the best of the best. Houston is such a melting pot of people. There were all sorts of different things going on there, which they go on everywhere. 03:48 We just don’t hear about them. But I got the best experience ever. So, then I moved back to this area, worked briefly as deputy chief for Dallas County, then got the job working for Denton County as a forensic death investigator, which is where I’m at now. 04:10 And it’s kind of strange because when I was a child, I was scared to death of death. I would go to sleep at night, afraid I would wake up. I thought that the last thing I said to my parents before I went to bed was the last thing they were ever going to hear from me. 04:28 So, to find myself working in this field now is a little strange to me. People always ask me, how do you do it? How do you do it and still be happy? Do you not take that stuff home with you? Don’t you have dreams? 04:42 And I don’t. And I think what makes it easier for me is in the hospital, when you’re taking care of patients, you get to know them, you get to know their family, you almost feel like you’re a part of their family. 04:55 And
